Moving in time as plants having a different pace and rhythm which we usually disregard. Moving in space of nets, nests, hollows, corners, tunnels, caves, cellars, undergrounds. Pawel Dudus is an artists, choreographer and dancer who is through his queer, migrant and feminist lense rethinking the old, hierarchical and patriarchal way of holding, dealing with or executing POWER as DARKNESS – the quality of lacking color (color=diversity) a synonym for secrecy, wickedness, evil and ignorance. Pawel was one of the participants who took part in this year interdisciplinary residency Incubator 2019 which was teasing the notion of obscurity. After the week spent in the castle in Žďár nad Sázavou Pawel shares the conversation with his friend on how to grasp the notion of obscurity
A casual report on the subject of obscurity captured during a conversation with my friend.
A week after coming back from the castle. In an intimate setting, lying together on a sofa and eating pistachios.
Pawel goes: what is obscurity for you?
Friend: I dont know. You tell me.
P: I\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'m curious to know what you think about obscurity. How would you describe it. F: Ooooh no, dont make me think now.
P: You dont have to think. Just tell me how you would describe obscurity.
F: Well, you asked me what do I think, so i have to think.
A sense of self destruction ?
or might be...
I mean of course it reminds me of some insecurities.
being suspicious.... or rather sceptical
P: Or maybe theres no real explanation to what obscurity is. Maybe its a term that can\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t be really defined because of the fact that it is obscurity.
I mean... we can understand it within the language, you can translate the word to other languages....
F: Actually the word is describing itself! Maybe.
Maybe the meaning means this word. You know what i mean?
Because I think it means the unknown and not explainable, so it sounds really obscure.
P: Hahaha! Yeah! The words usually aim to describe something, but that specific word is really difficult to put in a box which would clearly represent its meaning. You know?
F: Actually you know what I think sometimes? Sometimes the words create actions other then the other words and not the other way around.
You usually think theres an action and you name it afterwords, but sometimes there\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s something that youre not sure about the name, but then by using the word it becomes this thing.
P: Yeah!
F: Maybe... like... it creates some kind of consciousness on that thing. It doesn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t have to be the a feeling
or something, it can be just object or like... a gesture, you know what I mean?
P: Yeah... mmm... not really
F: Because for instance, in „The Odyssey”, the journey, they never mention „blue”.
There was never word „blue”. They were describing the sky as silver and the sea had the wine color... bla bla, bla... maybe in the nature there are not some many blue things I guess... except for the sea and the sky
P: Nooo! But both of them are actually transparent!
F:Yes, but you see them blue.
P: Why?
F: Because of the atmosphere.
P: Okay, you know it!
F: But then... they didn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t mean the word „blue”. They were saying things like „sky” and „sea” but then
suddenly there was „blue” consciousness.
P: aaaaa Okay, so you name things in order to make them conscious.
F: You name them to make them visible, maybe.
P: Wow, I like this way of thinking. Exactly! This is exactly what we\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'ve been doing during this residency.
F: aaaa really?
P: Yeah, this what you\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'ve said. approaching .... we were looking at the subject of obscurity and through discovering things and naming them, we were bringing the obscurity into some sort of light, the light of consciousness, if you relate to the obscurity as something unknown, hidden or invisible...
F: you make it legit, or you accommodate with the possible meaning.
P:Yeah, exactly!
F: But like what?
P:Different things.
F: Hmmmm
P: Different artists had different proposals. One of them proposed that within the room, for example this
living room, there are subspaces, as if this room would energetically divided.
F: mmmmmm ( smiling sceptically)
P: I use the word „energetically but imagine that this room is divided into subSPACES, within the room there are other spaces, which have very specific codification ambient.
We were moving in the space and trying to discover what are the other subSPACES
F: Were you high?
P: Hahaha! No!
F: Hahaha! But this is such a „high attitude” thinking! I guess.
P: You may say it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s conceptualizing on something that is invisible. Coming up with theories.
My proposal was to look at the power exchange within bdsm practises, as bdsm practises are being obscure itself for many people.
F: That\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s a nice topic! Because today the guy I was having sex with was a little bit like... he likes S/M but soft, aaaahm like harsh and soft at the same time. I was not sure if he would like to treat our date like that, but then you know, how can you really recognize if the person wants this kind of interaction? Thats interesting. Because you don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t want to make something wrong, you don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t want to make the person upset.
P: Yes yes yes, either you communicate verbally...
F: Yeah, but then it kills the moment.
P: I understand. On the other hand you can also recognize it by being physically sensitive. If you really observe the person, how the person responds to the way you touch the person, you get lots of information. You can navigate with it. Its like a Morse code – so to say, by reading the responses you can...
F: Yes of course, but yeah! it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s hard to tell.
P: for example – it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s easy to test it how the person responds to a „stronger” touch or a tighter grip - It\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s something that is still recognized as touch, You may try to touch in a more compact way and you may add some extra pressure to the body part you\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'re in contact with. You may also physically manifest your strength or immobilize the person and you\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'ll see how the person responds to it. You ll be able to observe if that triggers more arousal or if the person gets uncomfortable. And then from there you can take it a step further...
F: Yes yes yes, but my problem is, when I\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'m doing this I kind of activities, I do it somehow or people accept it somehow what Im doing. But it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s different when people do it to me, I\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'m not used to be treated harsh... it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s a bit like „ hmmmm okay”
P: But are you curious about it? What stops you from going fully for it?
F: I don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t know, I think it should be double sided
P: You mean, desired from both sides?
F: Yeah!
no no, like ... if there would be any kind of action, it should be double sided P: aaaa, you mean that you exchange the roles.
F: yeah, that\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\s what I would like to do
P: Interesting...
The music plays. The conversation continues. Listen to the track.
